作者 主题: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12  (阅读 2166 次)

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线上 Ophidia

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龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 08:53:33 »
我最近在思考骑龙的事,我就想,龙骑兵这种从刻板印象中是近战的职业,近身了直接让龙砍人喷人就好了,干嘛要拿把矛像个怂逼一样捅人还要注意不被龙喷到?

为何不利用龙飞行的特点,在龙上放几个法师,法师往下投火球/流星爆/任何射程不错的攻击法术?
觉得法师骑不住龙?没有法师?叫几个小弟往下丢炸弹,我觉得丢大石头都比拿矛捅人强。更可以的是,几个弓箭手/弩手,往下射箭。还能对空dogfight
还有,龙上放个buff人,给龙上buff,给龙鼓劲助威。龙也是有感情,想要有支持它的朋友的生物啊!

我觉得可以,下次放进模组
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
I am a good Hegelian. If you have a good theory, forget about the reality.
Men must not cut down trees. There is a God. Change the world. No one kills from hatred.

bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!

O mother of flames,
       You who have kept the fire burning!
       Lo, I am helpless!
Would God they had taken me with them!

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #1 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 09:29:43 »
请先列出费用清单
1.这些事都有合理解释,但出于安全考虑,不能公开。
2.由于降低了预算,监管力量削弱才有了这一疏忽。
3.该实验值得一做,并已经停止,得到了大量珍贵数据。还提供了就业。
4.有些重要信息,尘埃落定以后我们才能得知。下不为例。
5.由个人决策失误引起,已根据内部纪律条例予以处理。

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #2 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 09:36:14 »
那要看是什么样的龙骑兵
毕竟在奇幻世界里,弓是可能在材质和使用者的不同的区别下,威力能从普通的弓箭跨度到流星一条的程度的。
能够骑乘龙的要么是自身非常强大(足以制御龙),要么是跟龙感情爆好。前者一般就是把龙当成坐骑去方便移动,自己随便攻击都能开山劈石,后者基本上就是指挥龙去攻击而不是自己攻击了。

在dnd里的话,首先龙是超高傲的,一般的法师没资格坐上去,强力的法师没必要靠骑龙去搞事;
其次,在规则里,这是一个骑乘行为,在龙的高速移动下,法师需要过骑术来控制龙的精准行动(不考虑精神控制),并且需要过超高的专注才能正常施法,对于辣鸡法师来说,即使有个大佬法师把龙控制住给他用,他也很难在龙背上坐稳和顺利施法。
丢炸弹和丢石头的,确实是有番天印的玩法,但是总的来说还是——在能常规骑龙的等级这种手段已经太low了。
龙骑弓手本质上就是个三维立体移动的马弓手。
最后,就是楼上说的,成本太大。

PS:大部分情况下,人对于龙来说,只是猫对于人一般的存在,只有部分龙愿意跟人有友善关系,尤其是人靠近龙的目的大部分是为了屠龙和掠夺龙财宝的时候——想当浮莲子?先看看你是不是藪猫吧(还不能是第二季那种)
« 上次编辑: 2019-05-14, 周二 09:44:32 由 涅薇儿·德拉诺尔 »
下辈子一定要当个蛮子,免得想太多。
帕拉丁冲锋破鞋必出1,这是一种真理
每当我出carry的时候总有人抢中路,每当我出辅助的时候总让我去中单
自从当了DM,豁免骰那是一个比一个大……
[21:54] <玛多卡> .r d20+13 出1我就掀桌
[21:54] <DnDBot> 玛多卡 投擲 出1我就掀桌: 1d20+13=(1)+13=14

离线 希尔

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #3 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 09:36:24 »
那你确实很少能看到骑着龙拿着矛戳人的“龙骑士”,即便有也不可能占据轰炸机位置,可以说是不存在的靶子了。

至于高魔到随便丢火球的世界,那飞起来丢也不是很有创意的事情。
见证了丢人的币+1

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #4 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 09:39:24 »
我最近在思考骑龙的事,我就想,龙骑兵这种从刻板印象中是近战的职业,近身了直接让龙砍人喷人就好了,干嘛要拿把矛像个怂逼一样捅人还要注意不被龙喷到?

为何不利用龙飞行的特点,在龙上放几个法师,法师往下投火球/流星爆/任何射程不错的攻击法术?
觉得法师骑不住龙?没有法师?叫几个小弟往下丢炸弹,我觉得丢大石头都比拿矛捅人强。更可以的是,几个弓箭手/弩手,往下射箭。还能对空dogfight
还有,龙上放个buff人,给龙上buff,给龙鼓劲助威。龙也是有感情,想要有支持它的朋友的生物啊!

我觉得可以,下次放进模组
主要原因是骑士骑龙比较帅……符合传统骑兵的印象
如果硬要从规则上解释的话:
·一般的认知里,战士系的近战还是应该比法师系强的
·龙息是一种清杂兵的大范围攻击技能,在一对一单挑中输出不如肉搏
·对龙骑兵来说,大批杂兵带来的威胁比单个敌对龙骑兵要小
·所以确保在龙骑兵之间的1对1肉搏单挑中击败对手更为重要,因此强化肉搏能力比强化远距离攻击能力更重要
·至于为什么不上诗人,因为诗人的歌曲对多个人强化效率较高,而1v1的话还是多上一个战士效果更好。(当然真正原因大概是诗人唱歌给buff这种描述放在小说里会很蠢?)
·另外对龙骑士拿枪互戳描述最多的是龙枪系列,那里面的“龙枪”是一种数量极多的武器,骑着龙拿那个枪戳别的龙是秒杀……
岩石不因体积而比钻石更珍贵,那宇宙又怎会因体积而比人类更伟大呢?

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #5 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 10:49:05 »
我觉得也是,那飞行动物呢,比如半身人骑翼龙或者老鹰我觉得可以吧?
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
I am a good Hegelian. If you have a good theory, forget about the reality.
Men must not cut down trees. There is a God. Change the world. No one kills from hatred.

bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!

O mother of flames,
       You who have kept the fire burning!
       Lo, I am helpless!
Would God they had taken me with them!

离线 Mounrou

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #6 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 10:53:54 »
Dragons or Wyverns?

Older stories and games (Pre-00s) tend to have actual Dragons the sizes of small apartments, and riding them tend to be big deals.
"Conventional" (post-00s) eras most of the commonly-rideables are Wyverns. - aka lesser Dragons that are sizes of large horses or small trucks. - And people on them are usually disposable grunts for EXPs.


===


Riding "Dragons" for purpose of combat don't actually make sense, as:
1) Human characters don't have arms long enough to reach over backs of Dragons that ride, even with extra-extra-long lances use in jousts considering how BIG dragons are supposed to be.
(Jousting lances are usually maxed at 14 ft or so. An actual Large Red Dragon in 4E has the Overall Length of 33 ft, neck length of 12 ft, and body length of 12 ft.
Literally a regular human holding a 14 ft lance would be pointing the tip of the lance at his own ride's skull.  :em032)
It is not something that adding length can solve either: Not mentioning the additional weight since its fantasy, the deviation of the tip, the "cone" gets larger the longer a pierce weapon is, roughly about the same as how you calculate the area of a circle. And it has to be a piercing weapon, as any and every weapon with chop, slash, or blunt effect would mean your dragon NOT having a head anymore... :em032

2) With the proportions of how Dragons should be, their biggest weak angles would be top & bottom ie chest & back.
The environments of an aerial dogfi... dragonfight is 3D, compare to 2D of a ground-based fight.
A human rider on a dragon's back facing the front, can deal with threats from the front properly, but that is where the Dragon's head is, and most combat-trained beings tend to be able to deal with attacks toward their heads in the first place.
Whereas the behind and the bottom are not covered.
So Dragonriders, in order to fight efficiently, should instead focus on the back ie. sit towards the back, or bottom ie. sit under the chest like a baby kangaroo, and let the Dragon deal with the forward arc.  (Though that'd look really stupid in pictures. :em008 ) Then again that's what people do in B-12s.

3) Dragons can usually:
a) Breathe damages like a cannon, and
b) Cast magic. In many stories they are even just raw magic themselves.
Compare to them magicians would be like Macross Cannon vs... I dunno, pea-shooters?

4) Flying creatures just fight differently from land-based creatures.
A B-12 is a slow, hard to maneuver thing that requires fighter support in an actual Dogfight.
A living creature in the air simply cannot survive acting like a B-12, even if they are literally invulnerable. Getting knock out of the air is always possible even if one is, and Dragons aren't invulnerable.
And Dragons in fictions are far from bulky and slow.
Typical fictions tend to show dragon fighting as "dragons flying in one straight line".
And you pretty much need jousts to travel in one straight line, otherwise you won't have a joust.
No flying creature does that, ever. And we are talking about creatures with below-average IQs.
This is how birds fight.

5) Arrows?
a) Can they fly faster than dragons?
b) Can they fly faster than a dragon when you're on another fast-moving dragon's back?
c) Can they track an aware target that knows they're being attacked and can turn? (In a sense, bird hunting are literally assassinations against birds who don't know they are being targeted.)
d) If you can do all 3, do you actually need to get on a dragon's back to do so? :em016

6) Dragons against non-dragons
See #3, Macross Cannon anyone?

7) Buffing in air:
How close do you need to be to buff someone again?
(Most games don't have that specified, - Pretty sure GMs supposed to stop any players who'd misuse that though. - but most stories it tends to be 10-20 meters or so?)
A Dragon with the laying down height of 7ft/2m (again, 4E) would be kissing the ground at 20m.
You can do that while the Dragon is on the ground, but... Why ride a Dragon again?
As for buffing the dragon, it'd be like your fighter strapping the cleric onto his back: He could do that, but is that necessary?

Yep, Dragon ridings are pretty much just "for the lulz". :em012
(It's closest comparison would be you strapping a young, 1-ft tall dwarfling holding a penknife onto your back... Wait, make that a berserk dwalfling looking for a fight. :em006)

===

Wyverns.

In this case it'd make sense whatever you put onto their backs.

In stories:
>They tend to be shorter and smaller, that means a lance would stick beyond their heads.
>Their smaller size means smaller target, and a smaller arc that a front-facing rider can potentially cover better.
>They tend to be dumber, and most can't cast spells.
>They tend to be slower and less tough, meaning arrows can track and penetrate.
>Their breaths are still strong, but not that strong, and again no spells.
>They are easier to get/tame/maintain than Dragons, so you can field lots of them.

They'd work both in the conventional senses, and in the sense you're thinking.
Pretty much anything of similar size and shape and IQ would do too.
« 上次编辑: 2019-05-14, 周二 11:15:55 由 Mounrou »
I just can't grasp Chinese Input, so I can only handwrite.
It takes me about 10 times as much to write Chinese on the PC than English, plus the finger pains... >3<

So unless it's VERY important, I'll just do English.

Give me a holler if you can't do English though and I'll try to accommodate. -w-b
(Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )
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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #7 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 11:03:55 »
最后,还是Depends on the setting吗

太悲哀了,我还是不吹水了  :em023

So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
I am a good Hegelian. If you have a good theory, forget about the reality.
Men must not cut down trees. There is a God. Change the world. No one kills from hatred.

bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!

O mother of flames,
       You who have kept the fire burning!
       Lo, I am helpless!
Would God they had taken me with them!

离线 Mounrou

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #8 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 11:22:53 »
Like I said, Dragons are more romantic than practical, but other stuffs are possible.

Military tactics for Wyvern/Griffin/Pegasus Dragoons would be interesting. :em019
(No one seems to do any actual army tactics in non-TWG RPGs other than Wraith Recon... :em002 )
« 上次编辑: 2019-05-14, 周二 11:24:41 由 Mounrou »
I just can't grasp Chinese Input, so I can only handwrite.
It takes me about 10 times as much to write Chinese on the PC than English, plus the finger pains... >3<

So unless it's VERY important, I'll just do English.

Give me a holler if you can't do English though and I'll try to accommodate. -w-b
(Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )
FB Prototyping Area

离线 Leaf

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #9 于: 2019-05-14, 周二 12:12:35 »
龙一般的用法是利用其龙威震慑对方,然后地面部队收割,龙骑士通常则是用来反制那些龙

如果用现实的东西来说就是古代负责从侧面或者后面突入制造混乱的小股和服负责保护侧和背的老兵组成的预备兵部队

1.这些事都有合理解释,但出于安全考虑,不能公开。
2.由于降低了预算,监管力量削弱才有了这一疏忽。
3.该实验值得一做,并已经停止,得到了大量珍贵数据。还提供了就业。
4.有些重要信息,尘埃落定以后我们才能得知。下不为例。
5.由个人决策失误引起,已根据内部纪律条例予以处理。

离线 snowknight

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #10 于: 2019-05-16, 周四 00:00:31 »
假如中世纪有空军 那么空军一定会装备高能量密度的远程武器才划算。
所以如果真有量装的双足飞龙龙骑士的话 应该就是战略重型远程轰炸机群的角色。
也就是很可能上边都是轻装的奥法骑士兼魔射手, 手拿魔法弓弩配魔法弹药,同时还有好几根火球杖【火球应该是最低配置】。
这样的配置当然维持代价不菲,所以估计应该数量不会多。

当然 如果有了核弹这兵种还是挺不错的,总比洲际导弹的成本便宜的多。
白雪諾 10/18/12/13/10/16 | LG 人类 男性 | 义洛理圣武2| HP 21/21 | AC 20(16 tch, 14 fl) | CMD 16 | F7 R7 W6 | 先攻+4 | 骑术+7,生存+3,魔法装置+5,唬骗+5,杂技+7,驯养动物+7|普通视觉 |随意攻击 AB+6,DMG 1D8| 随意侦测气池|试炼(1/1) +1| 圣疗(4/4)1D6+3正能量
赵灵儿 20/13/10/05/08/18 | LG 娜迦裔 女性 | 神圣使徒圣武4| HP 32/32 | AC 22(14 tch, 18 fl) | CMD 21 | F8 R6 W7 | 先攻+1 | 宗教+1,位面-1,交涉+8|昏暗视觉 |随意攻击 AB+8,DMG 2D8+7| 随意侦测邪恶|制裁(1/1) +4,毁灭(1/1) +1| 圣疗(6/6+3/3)2D6正能量|勇气灵光,病免,移除疲乏,引导正能量,法术1,领域1
4E模组恐怖墓穴第一弹!http://www.goddessfantasy.net/bbs/index.php?topic=103310.0

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #11 于: 2019-05-16, 周四 00:17:49 »
可以2阶段跳下龙然后一刀戳死自己的坐骑

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #12 于: 2019-05-16, 周四 06:36:48 »
……是龙背上的破邪斩

有的设定是说对面有龙骑,龙骑拿牙签戳龙龙很不爽于是也开发出了自己的自爆牙签
文人为了写作素材什么事都干的出来

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #13 于: 2019-05-16, 周四 08:35:59 »
可以2阶段跳下龙然后一刀戳死自己的坐骑
然后开始丢雷?

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Re: 龙骑兵,以及如何在奇幻世界搞出B12
« 回帖 #14 于: 2019-05-16, 周四 09:26:31 »
你能用火球棍打人意味着你也在对面的火球棍射程内。。。。。。。你们被集火射下来你的损失是


请想出这个主意的人去军事法庭开颅验脑看看有没有被什么入侵了
1.这些事都有合理解释,但出于安全考虑,不能公开。
2.由于降低了预算,监管力量削弱才有了这一疏忽。
3.该实验值得一做,并已经停止,得到了大量珍贵数据。还提供了就业。
4.有些重要信息,尘埃落定以后我们才能得知。下不为例。
5.由个人决策失误引起,已根据内部纪律条例予以处理。